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Interview with Liu Shiwei: Speaking from "The Secrets of the South"

From: Date: 2018-08-10 Author: Chen Zhifu

刘诗伟 Interview guest: Liu Shiwei   

Interview / Writing: Chen Zhifu

 

Zhou Dashun first shaped himself in real life

Chen Zhifu: When did the writing idea of "The Secret of the South" come about?

Liu Shiwei: A few years ago, before writing this novel, reflections on reform had various voices. I came from the front line of this era, and I was dissatisfied with those "touching the elephant" and "stance". The material of this novel was originally in my mind. It was not an accidental inspiration, but an inspiration that happened countless times. I've been thinking about it, thinking about how to write a little more valuable, to achieve the novel I want in my heart, it can be said to be a sediment of my heart. Due to dissatisfaction with various reflections, I felt that it was necessary to respond strongly as soon as possible. Frankly, I want to be a writer with a sense of mission. My pursuit of literature and ideas are combined with social concerns. I ask myself to pay attention to and think about major or critical events in society. The tremendous changes brought about by the reform and opening up to the national society and people's destiny have deeply touched me. I have more or less experienced the life before the reform and opening up, and I also know the living conditions of the older generations in the special political and economic background, and I know that reform and opening up are good. However, the good governance of reform and opening up has been running for decades, and many new situations have occurred during the period, which have complicated the problem. In the face of the close life in front of us, we must calmly think and digest, take out deep and valuable ideas that go beyond mediocrity and get rid of prejudice, and overcome various difficulties in narrative art. My writing touches on life, facts, thoughts, and concerns about society. I write very quickly. After the release of "Salvation" in 2011, I took a break for about a year and started writing. I finished it in more than a year of spare time. First draft of 400,000 words.

Chen Zhifu: Are there any major changes since the first draft?

Liu Shiwei: After the first draft was written, it was stored for a period of time, and then printed out. It was sent to several writers, critics, editors, and the public (both teachers and friends who can speak). They were very serious and did a lot of reading The notes moved me. Their opinions on many small aspects are easily eliminated. Their opinions on large aspects are often different, and even the contrary, I will think hard, digest and deal with personal cognition and interest. The big change is to write three primers clearly and firmly. These three quotes are not directly related to the main story. They are the hero's current thoughts and actions. I divided them into three sections, which are placed at the beginning, middle, and end respectively. They are both a prologue and an epilogue. Complete event. The three quotes are the extension of the character's personality and the continuation of life, and are now a link and contrast with the past; structurally, it is intertextual, maintaining a tone of irony and humor, thinking that it can produce narrative tension.

Chen Zhifu: Why thought of writing Zhou Dashun?

Liu Shiwei: Zhou Dashun (Brother Shun) is the concentrated expression of my understanding, organization, thinking, and concern about social life, and the hero of the novel. Back to life, it is interesting that the "Cultural Revolution" was so revolutionary that human nature and sentiment have not been completely eliminated even in the system. The society's survival and life of the disabled are still slightly open, and they can do some craftsmanship. To do private work within their ability and to do small business, they not only have their own livelihoods, but also bring livelihoods to the society. Otherwise, rural life can hardly be carried out. Reform and opening up is a huge historical turn, and social life before and after is very different. At first, it was difficult to open the door. The left was obstructed and the policy was tied. Therefore, the contracted production in Anhui was secretive. Therefore, there is another coexisting fact. During the period of "invigoration", those who first took advantage of the policy and broke through the constraints of the system and mechanism were not the class with the "iron rice bowl" in the society at that time, because such people had Work, treatment, and food and clothing; they are a special group of people who are old, weak, ill, unemployed and unemployed, and released from labor reform. Their "no status" has become "conditional", and they have started to be active in the streets. , Gathered in Hanzheng Street, and obtained development opportunities. Zhou Dashun is a bitch, "the one" among them. These are the reality, the background in the future, the iron facts, the fulcrum of this work, the essence of the times, the fate of people, and the artistic power of life.

Needless to say, Zhou Dashun has a prototype. For example, in Qianjiang, Hubei, there is a well-known peasant entrepreneur Zhou XX, who started underwear in the countryside in the 1980s. At that time, he could communicate directly with the secretary of the provincial party committee and be a guest for each other, because he was a model of getting rich and a model of the times. Due to politics and policy, the heads of the government departments at that time focused on cultivating several models for getting rich. Moreover, a large number of them did indeed have a sense of political responsibility in the early stage, and they also focused on economic construction in a sincere manner, and were even more honest and innocent. It's just the way it was then. The period of reform and opening up gradually shifted to economic construction as the center. At that time, the main means of economic development were to give policy, and to set up an advanced model. Television, radio, and newspapers served the overall situation. I was a reporter at a local party newspaper at the time. I often interviewed and promoted entrepreneurs. I was too familiar with people like Zhou XX, such as how they started, how to run township and village enterprises, how to use policies, how to step on the red line, how to launch large projects, etc. Wait. In the 1990s, I went to sea to work for Hong Kong Sibao Group. Although I am engaged in modern business operations, I must pay attention to and intervene in local enterprises and socio-economic conditions. For example, the first private financial institution approved by the government, Dajiang Urban Credit Cooperative, appeared on Hanzheng Street. After collecting interest, I encountered a run, and the people who came to the run queued for several streets. The police had to maintain order. Of course, I know better than others.

In short, Zhou Dashun was given to me by real life. It was Zhou Dashun who first shaped himself in real life, and also shaped himself into a typical character in the mainstream social life of an era. Of course, the literary figure of Zhou Dashun also includes the shadows of a large number of township entrepreneurs such as Nian Guangjiu, Wu Renbao, Lu Guanqiu. Mr. Lu Xun wrote that the characters are "miscellaneous people, combining one." I take another method and use a more typical character as a prototype to absorb the characteristics of all known similar characters to make them three-dimensional and full. Including Zhou Dashun's subsequent operation of enterprises that violated economic laws, violated policies, violated discipline and violated laws, traded power and money, and raised funds illegally, there were similar people and things.

I wrote this character as a choice of my literary aspirations and ideas. I hope that I can make a powerful response to the mainstream essential life of this era. Zhou Dashun is the product of the mainstream life of this era, which naturally accords with my observation and exploration of this era. However, writing the novel as the "clerk" of the era requires great efforts in art and narrative. I can only say that I have worked hard. As for the quality, I am always confident (laughs).

Marquez said that his magical realist writing did not exceed the real life he knew. From today's point of view, Zhou Dashun is simply a huge miracle, but he is really not a whimsy that erupted in my mind, but the natural growth in life, or the discoveries and performances that I have eaten through life. He allows us to feel the essence of the life of the times, to perceive the evolution of society and its possibilities, to sigh the demands of life and destiny, as well as uncertain active and passive.

  

Real serious literature is destined to be critical in the face of life

Chen Zhifu: Unlike Zhou Dashun, which runs companies by politics, the idea of autumn harvest is to follow the market economy line. What is the significance of this two-phase structure arrangement?

Liu Shiwei: Let me first say a basic premise, life is never satisfactory, human beings always yearn for a better life; literary criticism of life is to expect a better life. This is the law of the occurrence of literature, and it is the mission, value and charm. Really serious literature is destined to be critical in the face of life.

The autumn harvest is a critique of Zhou Dashun. The ideas of autumn harvest and Zhou Dashun formed a realistic structure that collided with each other. At first, Qiu Shou and Zhou Dashun started a business together and took a path (the "political line"), but they were not as obsessed and hard-working as Zhou Dashun, there was no mentality of the disabled, and the value of bras was also richer and more modern. She and Zhou Dashun parted ways with regard to their business philosophy. There was an important turning point: After she became confused about Zhou Dashun's approach and had conflicts between husband and wife, she immigrated to Hong Kong, squatted into an immigration supervisor, learned Cantonese, went out to work, and found out that the company was operating in a market economy Great. After returning to the mainland, she believes that the key to running an enterprise is not to rely on "politics", but to concentrate on the development of advanced and high-quality products to achieve core competitiveness and obtain benefits through normal marketing. This is consistent with my own life experience. The Hong Kong-funded enterprises that I work for have been pursuing development in accordance with the laws of the market economy in the mainland, with good performance and outstanding contributions to society. In fact, the market economy in the Mainland was largely introduced and taught by Hong Kong and Taiwan enterprises and foreign-funded enterprises. They do business in the Mainland and adopt a management model that conforms to the laws of the market economy. They are very different from mainland enterprises. They have promoted the development of the market economy in the Mainland. But Shun Brother felt that this set did not meet China's national conditions, and of course he still had to follow his old path. Since the reform and opening up, Chinese companies have pursued development like that. The official market economy concept was not introduced until 1992. However, the old and new economic concepts of Chinese society have always been entangled. The supporting systems and mechanisms of the market economy are always unable to keep up. Both the autumn harvest and Zhou Dashun's respective paths will encounter problems. When the enterprises in the autumn harvest encounter a crisis, they must rely on Shun brother to take the upper line to solve. This is the greater criticism after the autumn harvest criticism of Zhou Dashun, the so-called slope theory. This is a sandwich market economy system, and the legal system is not sound.

Chen Zhifu: At first, Zhou Dashun thought that he had glimpsed the way of economic and political marriage, and consciously catered for politics to obtain resources and opportunities for corporate development. Strangling, so much that the sale of assets almost fell into disappointment, and at this time there were many thoughts. In your opinion, what practical significance does Zhou Dashun's political thinking have?

Liu Shiwei: We are a distinctive socialist system, but it does not mean that our politics and ideology have remained unchanged. In an era centered on economic construction, in fact, political ideas have made considerable progress, and many have been reflected in the economy. Good measures in construction, many problems are that the actual operation level cannot keep pace with each other. Related supporting reforms, lack of legal system and policies, the boundary of the market economy cannot be clarified in a timely manner, human consciousness and quality lag, etc. This immature and imbalanced environment always brings uncertainty to the fate of individuals. For example, the government encourages you to get rich first, supports you to build an economy, make your business bigger and stronger, and allows you to build a credit cooperative. Even if there is a lack of supervision, it does not mean that you can mess around. In this case, it is extremely easy to mess around. Come.

Shun Ge's "three major projects" were sold cheaply and suffered losses. Naturally, he was disgusted and disappointed with officials and system policies. Brother Shun thought, I made a mistake. In order to maintain stability and protect yourself, you punched and kicked me. I suddenly became a "political" abandoner. But in fact, he had "understood" a long time ago. He only used "politics." He just knew that he could not change this situation. He was contradictory and fluke. At the same time, he can't systematically analyze the political and personal components, and can only look at issues in general. In order to protect himself, he traded power and money, corrupted officials and lured officials to corruption. Shun Ge is tired of the "politics" he understands from the bottom of his heart, but in the end he cannot get away from the relationship with politics. His business activities and career development are closely related to politics in one way or another. The relationship between politics and economy has never been simple, and it is especially special in our country. My novel should make efforts in discovering, exploring, and expressing the relationship between people and society, at least it is a call for comprehensive deepening reform including institutional mechanisms and government. The practical significance of Zhou Dashun's thoughts is also here.

Chen Zhifu: In a nutshell, what do you think of the relationship between literature and politics?

Liu Shiwei: Literature is human science. Of course, literature is inseparable from politics. Politics is a part of social life, and it is the main decisive part, so no one can get rid of it. To missionary writers, this should not be a problem. Politics is a huge objective existence that writers must face, must ponder and reflect (even if indirectly). A writer has a sense of social responsibility, pays attention to life, and pays attention to a political life. Your work is not the same as a political stand-up, nor does it mean serving as a so-called "political tool". It may affect the improvement and optimization of politics. If you take the evasion method, it will be unproductive and you cannot escape. I don't understand why some people refuse to face and study politics, or simply respond to and deal with politics based on skin feelings or generalized ideas and information. This often only has excitement and anger without deep. Of course, it is necessary and meaningful to write something about alienating (downplaying) politics and life, and even things that are fussy, but that is not my choice for this work.

Chinese contemporary literature had for a time ordered literature to serve politics, and it was not in keeping with the law of literature to engage in ideas first and the Acura movement. Looking at the history of literature, I haven't found an Acura style work that can be passed on for a long time. Good literature is not something that simply greases up politics. Literary conscience is often reflected in criticism of life. This is what any conscientious writer wants to do. The writer reveals the bad things in life and the false and ugly things, which is at least critical; of course, criticality is also reflected in more aspects and deeper levels. This is the reason why writers exist. A serious and intellectually literate writer probably does not confront politics a priori, but only explores and discovers in life, and tells what he sees. This is exactly how much he loves human society and social life. At this point, It should be in line with good politics. Of course it can sometimes be uncomfortable or painful.

Hubei literature has a fine tradition of realistic realism. Since the new period, Fang Fang, Chi Li, Liu Xinglong, Chen Yingsong, etc. have created a large number of short and medium novels that respond to reality. On the whole, they are first-class in Chinese contemporary literature. These works are of positive significance to the progress of social civilization. This is a glorious page of Hubei literature. Don't these works reflect politics? There must be. It's just not straightforward, it's artistic.

Chen Zhifu: "The Secret of the South" is deeply influenced by the fine tradition of realism, with a strong sense of realistic criticism, especially the political discussion in the latter part is thought-provoking. What is the significance of ideological criticism in literary creation?

Liu Shiwei: It should be noted that literary writers like me, who first came into contact with literature and studied literature at university, were first influenced by realist literature. About due to their hard work, realist things have been geneticized in my literary construction. Already. However, I am particularly restless. I like different things. I have always maintained a good taste of modernism (such as existentialism). This is the factor that changes the genetic structure of my literature. In the face of realistic writing, I pay special attention to two aspects: one is the aesthetic character of the novel, and the other is the ideological power of art.

If literature is to be taken out of the drawer or computer, it must provide as much positive value to society as possible (including useful entertainment value). This is the basic ethics of literature. The value of literature is the presentation of the writer's ability, mission, and conscience, and his attitude and expression of social life. But writers 'methods and methods are different, after all, writers' methods are literary arts and novel forms. In my work, there are some "political arguments" behind you (let's say this), which are a reflection of life itself. Our magnificent era and its social life continue to develop rapidly, and later some problems appear prominent and sharp, and comments and reflections in life are happening. The characters in mainstream life are not wood, they have experiences, they have thoughts, and natural conferences discuss some sharp contradictions and problems. This is the need and product of the development of life itself. At the beginning or the initial stage of reform and opening up, everyone was busy with business affairs. There was no time, and they were more and more eager. It was like a car on a highway, the driver desperately stepped on the accelerator, rushed forward with a plate, and passengers were still pressing. Hurry up, but as soon as there is a problem with the road ahead, the car is not working, the driver has not recruited, and the speed has slowed down, the passengers begin to mumble. This mutter is also called so-called political argument. This is what happens in life itself, not the cleverness of creation. It's not the author's direct expression, but the character's behavior (thinking and speaking). For example, Liu Banwen and Zhou Dashun's sister Zhou Xiaomei in the works are both economics scholars and discuss real economic issues with their mentors in the coffee shop. Another example is the lectures and discussions in the clubhouse. It is inevitable that Zhou Dashun thought and spoke. This was the case until this time. This is also an old phenomenon in Russian literature in the 19th century. I'm writing a novel. Even if I have a train of thought, I can't throw a sentence directly. This is no way. I must follow the laws of literature.

However, this does not mean that the writer is powerless in terms of ideology. Reflecting the ideas contained in life, or transmitting the ideas of the creative subject through characters, this is a trick that more than 90% of writers will do. I am not satisfied to do so. I think the ideological nature of the novel is the ideological nature of art, and the depth of the novel is the depth of art. First, we must work hard to bring our own intellectual resources to life to think, to discover, to discover; then, to create a logical force on the structure of the novel, to reach the original in character portrayal, and to conform to modern art in terms of narrative texture and rhythm. It feels that there is meaning and flavor in language, infiltrating thoughts into these aspects, and tending to unique aesthetic character and noble faith. This is the big game for novelists. Of course, if you want it, you may not be able to do it. You ask what significance ideological criticality has in literary creation, and Mr. Lu Xun's Ah Q has this significance.

  

Novels are not a repository for events

Chen Zhifu: You wrote in the preface to "The Secret of the South": "I always wanted to write a story like this so that no matter how you redefine the story, you can test its accuracy with a real tape measure. I believe it is open to approach the real thing It ’s the correct and kind-hearted premise for its gesture, and its interesting discovery and appeal may stand forever. But accuracy requires more discovery and courage, and does not hinder the beating of the mind. "How should the truth of literature be understood?

Liu Shiwei: First of all, regarding this novel, I can confidently say that in the face of the mainstream social life (economic-centered) of this era-if others' stories are heard, then I see them; if others are watching When I arrive, I feel it; if others touch it, then I am the one who is touched. I have lived through my own life, and I write reliably and confidently. I said in the preface that if we write real life and write it accurately, then it will be open. Openness is not an empty slogan, but a positive response to life and a true presentation. What life is like and what it is, write it truthfully, and strive to be accurate and close to the truth. Only then can you have conscience and goodwill, and it is an open attitude. Otherwise, where is your conscience and goodwill reflected? If a writer's writing is covering, disguising and whitewashing life, what conscience and kindness are they talking about? Talent cannot replace conscience, nor can it replace reality. Without truth, no matter how much you add vinegar to your work, it is invalid.

But the truth of literature is indeed a complex issue. I agree with essential realism. But this is laborious and life-consuming. Nor are several commentators able to identify and draw conclusions. For example, Liu Qing was a very accomplished and talented predecessor writer. In order to write the biggest life of the time “cooperative”, he lived in a “cooperative” village for a long time. Many of the corrections and deepenings in life are subverting established conclusions and personal preliminary understandings, and the repetition and deepening of them are the gains of long-term and deep life. So Liu Qing is a great writer, and his greatness makes many who tout him ill-qualified to tout him. Why do I respect Wang Meng and look at people's cultivation and life experience. Now some writers are trying to get things done, luck, imagination, concept first, carving tricks. The critics have exaggerated the small things and concepts, boasting.

Chen Zhifu: What is the special meaning of "The Secret of the South"? What exactly is a secret?

Liu Shiwei: The South is specifically referred to in Chinese traditional culture and reality, and has a corresponding relationship with the Central Government. The north is below the sky, and the south is the world. I use the Jianghan Plain as a slice of the world. What's the secret? At the beginning, there was a saying, "Secrets known by some people are suspended in the sky, and unreasonable smiles are popular." In our realistic political discourse cultural consciousness, because the left ideology has been in a dominant position for a long time, even the basic things of society and people have been ignored, hidden, or jealous, or not directly responding to the essentials of life, so that Yu Sheng's demands, longings, longings, longings, and rhythms of life should become secrets that cannot be said or spoken. We suspended these, preached the big politics, emphasized spiritual victory, talked about class struggle every day, and made people live outside of life. This is how we have become a political and cultural tradition. At the beginning of the reform and opening up, the basic demands of life and life were still the biggest open secret in public opinion. I wrote a lot of small secrets in the novel, and these small secrets together constitute this biggest public secret. I write this novel for the sake of people, for life, and for a living life. Everyone's life is peaceful, prosperous and happy, and we can usher in a better tomorrow. This is the most reliable and reasonable. But it wasn't, at least not to say. In my opinion, the great thing about reform is here. It has changed an era, let us gradually live boldly and confidently. This is the basic logic of civilized life. I consciously have the mission and responsibility to look at things like this, and add a voice to the sound of identifying and establishing a logical starting point for future civilization. Therefore, a novel should not be just a pile of stories, otherwise it will not become a warehouse of events? Novels are not the storehouse of events. The novel should form an independent and self-consistent art world. It has bones, flesh, five internal organs, blood, soul, and life. It has lively and powerful artistic vitality and appeal.

Chen Zhifu: The unique art world you operate in "The Secrets of the South" is obviously inseparable from the construction of the humorous style of the Jianghan Plain you are familiar with.

Liu Shiwei: Yes, this novel is full of little humor in the Jianghan Plain. The humor of the Jianghan Plain is grown in local daily livelihoods. It is not the same as humor elsewhere. It is also different from the humor of academic intellectuals. For example, Qian Zhongshu said that the truth is naked. This woman is naked, so she is close to the truth. . The humor of the Jianghan Plain exists in dialects, natural things, and specific activities in production and life. It is a requirement of artistic texture and a taste of wisdom. However, I think such humor is relatively easy to do, and difficult and more valuable humor is structural humor. I did an article called "Humor is Closer to Philosophy", which talked more about opinions and opinions. For example, the existence of this basic problem. Existentialism considers the nature to be ridiculous. Only use humor. And humor is not enough just at the level of language and paragraph. It must be structured and humorous, so that the essence of existence is humorous. This kind of humor is a big humor behind countless small humors throughout the whole article. Constantly humorous while reading, and finally wow, it turned out to be like this! My approach is often both ridiculously serious and extremely ridiculous.

All secrets form a huge secret. This huge secret is nothing more than the demands and desires of life. It should not be a secret at first; but everything runs in this secret. When this secret is actually not a secret, The evil nature of human desire opens up its teeth or laughs decently and generously-don't you think there is absurdity and humor?

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Interview with Liu Shiwei: Speaking from "The Secrets of the South"

2018-08-10 09-29-24

刘诗伟 Interview guest: Liu Shiwei   

Interview / Writing: Chen Zhifu

 

Zhou Dashun first shaped himself in real life

Chen Zhifu: When did the writing idea of "The Secret of the South" come about?

Liu Shiwei: A few years ago, before writing this novel, reflections on reform had various voices. I came from the front line of this era, and I was dissatisfied with those "touching the elephant" and "stance". The material of this novel was originally in my mind. It was not an accidental inspiration, but an inspiration that happened countless times. I've been thinking about it, thinking about how to write a little more valuable, to achieve the novel I want in my heart, it can be said to be a sediment of my heart. Due to dissatisfaction with various reflections, I felt that it was necessary to respond strongly as soon as possible. Frankly, I want to be a writer with a sense of mission. My pursuit of literature and ideas are combined with social concerns. I ask myself to pay attention to and think about major or critical events in society. The tremendous changes brought about by the reform and opening up to the national society and people's destiny have deeply touched me. I have more or less experienced the life before the reform and opening up, and I also know the living conditions of the older generations in the special political and economic background, and I know that reform and opening up are good. However, the good governance of reform and opening up has been running for decades, and many new situations have occurred during the period, which have complicated the problem. In the face of the close life in front of us, we must calmly think and digest, take out deep and valuable ideas that go beyond mediocrity and get rid of prejudice, and overcome various difficulties in narrative art. My writing touches on life, facts, thoughts, and concerns about society. I write very quickly. After the release of "Salvation" in 2011, I took a break for about a year and started writing. I finished it in more than a year of spare time. First draft of 400,000 words.

Chen Zhifu: Are there any major changes since the first draft?

Liu Shiwei: After the first draft was written, it was stored for a period of time, and then printed out. It was sent to several writers, critics, editors, and the public (both teachers and friends who can speak). They were very serious and did a lot of reading The notes moved me. Their opinions on many small aspects are easily eliminated. Their opinions on large aspects are often different, and even the contrary, I will think hard, digest and deal with personal cognition and interest. The big change is to write three primers clearly and firmly. These three quotes are not directly related to the main story. They are the hero's current thoughts and actions. I divided them into three sections, which are placed at the beginning, middle, and end respectively. They are both a prologue and an epilogue. Complete event. The three quotes are the extension of the character's personality and the continuation of life, and are now a link and contrast with the past; structurally, it is intertextual, maintaining a tone of irony and humor, thinking that it can produce narrative tension.

Chen Zhifu: Why thought of writing Zhou Dashun?

Liu Shiwei: Zhou Dashun (Brother Shun) is the concentrated expression of my understanding, organization, thinking, and concern about social life, and the hero of the novel. Back to life, it is interesting that the "Cultural Revolution" was so revolutionary that human nature and sentiment have not been completely eliminated even in the system. The society's survival and life of the disabled are still slightly open, and they can do some craftsmanship. To do private work within their ability and to do small business, they not only have their own livelihoods, but also bring livelihoods to the society. Otherwise, rural life can hardly be carried out. Reform and opening up is a huge historical turn, and social life before and after is very different. At first, it was difficult to open the door. The left was obstructed and the policy was tied. Therefore, the contracted production in Anhui was secretive. Therefore, there is another coexisting fact. During the period of "invigoration", those who first took advantage of the policy and broke through the constraints of the system and mechanism were not the class with the "iron rice bowl" in the society at that time, because such people had Work, treatment, and food and clothing; they are a special group of people who are old, weak, ill, unemployed and unemployed, and released from labor reform. Their "no status" has become "conditional", and they have started to be active in the streets. , Gathered in Hanzheng Street, and obtained development opportunities. Zhou Dashun is a bitch, "the one" among them. These are the reality, the background in the future, the iron facts, the fulcrum of this work, the essence of the times, the fate of people, and the artistic power of life.

Needless to say, Zhou Dashun has a prototype. For example, in Qianjiang, Hubei, there is a well-known peasant entrepreneur Zhou XX, who started underwear in the countryside in the 1980s. At that time, he could communicate directly with the secretary of the provincial party committee and be a guest for each other, because he was a model of getting rich and a model of the times. Due to politics and policy, the heads of the government departments at that time focused on cultivating several models for getting rich. Moreover, a large number of them did indeed have a sense of political responsibility in the early stage, and they also focused on economic construction in a sincere manner, and were even more honest and innocent. It's just the way it was then. The period of reform and opening up gradually shifted to economic construction as the center. At that time, the main means of economic development were to give policy, and to set up an advanced model. Television, radio, and newspapers served the overall situation. I was a reporter at a local party newspaper at the time. I often interviewed and promoted entrepreneurs. I was too familiar with people like Zhou XX, such as how they started, how to run township and village enterprises, how to use policies, how to step on the red line, how to launch large projects, etc. Wait. In the 1990s, I went to sea to work for Hong Kong Sibao Group. Although I am engaged in modern business operations, I must pay attention to and intervene in local enterprises and socio-economic conditions. For example, the first private financial institution approved by the government, Dajiang Urban Credit Cooperative, appeared on Hanzheng Street. After collecting interest, I encountered a run, and the people who came to the run queued for several streets. The police had to maintain order. Of course, I know better than others.

In short, Zhou Dashun was given to me by real life. It was Zhou Dashun who first shaped himself in real life, and also shaped himself into a typical character in the mainstream social life of an era. Of course, the literary figure of Zhou Dashun also includes the shadows of a large number of township entrepreneurs such as Nian Guangjiu, Wu Renbao, Lu Guanqiu. Mr. Lu Xun wrote that the characters are "miscellaneous people, combining one." I take another method and use a more typical character as a prototype to absorb the characteristics of all known similar characters to make them three-dimensional and full. Including Zhou Dashun's subsequent operation of enterprises that violated economic laws, violated policies, violated discipline and violated laws, traded power and money, and raised funds illegally, there were similar people and things.

I wrote this character as a choice of my literary aspirations and ideas. I hope that I can make a powerful response to the mainstream essential life of this era. Zhou Dashun is the product of the mainstream life of this era, which naturally accords with my observation and exploration of this era. However, writing the novel as the "clerk" of the era requires great efforts in art and narrative. I can only say that I have worked hard. As for the quality, I am always confident (laughs).

Marquez said that his magical realist writing did not exceed the real life he knew. From today's point of view, Zhou Dashun is simply a huge miracle, but he is really not a whimsy that erupted in my mind, but the natural growth in life, or the discoveries and performances that I have eaten through life. He allows us to feel the essence of the life of the times, to perceive the evolution of society and its possibilities, to sigh the demands of life and destiny, as well as uncertain active and passive.

  

Real serious literature is destined to be critical in the face of life

Chen Zhifu: Unlike Zhou Dashun, which runs companies by politics, the idea of autumn harvest is to follow the market economy line. What is the significance of this two-phase structure arrangement?

Liu Shiwei: Let me first say a basic premise, life is never satisfactory, human beings always yearn for a better life; literary criticism of life is to expect a better life. This is the law of the occurrence of literature, and it is the mission, value and charm. Really serious literature is destined to be critical in the face of life.

The autumn harvest is a critique of Zhou Dashun. The ideas of autumn harvest and Zhou Dashun formed a realistic structure that collided with each other. At first, Qiu Shou and Zhou Dashun started a business together and took a path (the "political line"), but they were not as obsessed and hard-working as Zhou Dashun, there was no mentality of the disabled, and the value of bras was also richer and more modern. She and Zhou Dashun parted ways with regard to their business philosophy. There was an important turning point: After she became confused about Zhou Dashun's approach and had conflicts between husband and wife, she immigrated to Hong Kong, squatted into an immigration supervisor, learned Cantonese, went out to work, and found out that the company was operating in a market economy Great. After returning to the mainland, she believes that the key to running an enterprise is not to rely on "politics", but to concentrate on the development of advanced and high-quality products to achieve core competitiveness and obtain benefits through normal marketing. This is consistent with my own life experience. The Hong Kong-funded enterprises that I work for have been pursuing development in accordance with the laws of the market economy in the mainland, with good performance and outstanding contributions to society. In fact, the market economy in the Mainland was largely introduced and taught by Hong Kong and Taiwan enterprises and foreign-funded enterprises. They do business in the Mainland and adopt a management model that conforms to the laws of the market economy. They are very different from mainland enterprises. They have promoted the development of the market economy in the Mainland. But Shun Brother felt that this set did not meet China's national conditions, and of course he still had to follow his old path. Since the reform and opening up, Chinese companies have pursued development like that. The official market economy concept was not introduced until 1992. However, the old and new economic concepts of Chinese society have always been entangled. The supporting systems and mechanisms of the market economy are always unable to keep up. Both the autumn harvest and Zhou Dashun's respective paths will encounter problems. When the enterprises in the autumn harvest encounter a crisis, they must rely on Shun brother to take the upper line to solve. This is the greater criticism after the autumn harvest criticism of Zhou Dashun, the so-called slope theory. This is a sandwich market economy system, and the legal system is not sound.

Chen Zhifu: At first, Zhou Dashun thought that he had glimpsed the way of economic and political marriage, and consciously catered for politics to obtain resources and opportunities for corporate development. Strangling, so much that the sale of assets almost fell into disappointment, and at this time there were many thoughts. In your opinion, what practical significance does Zhou Dashun's political thinking have?

Liu Shiwei: We are a distinctive socialist system, but it does not mean that our politics and ideology have remained unchanged. In an era centered on economic construction, in fact, political ideas have made considerable progress, and many have been reflected in the economy. Good measures in construction, many problems are that the actual operation level cannot keep pace with each other. Related supporting reforms, lack of legal system and policies, the boundary of the market economy cannot be clarified in a timely manner, human consciousness and quality lag, etc. This immature and imbalanced environment always brings uncertainty to the fate of individuals. For example, the government encourages you to get rich first, supports you to build an economy, make your business bigger and stronger, and allows you to build a credit cooperative. Even if there is a lack of supervision, it does not mean that you can mess around. In this case, it is extremely easy Come.

Shun Ge's "three major projects" were sold cheaply and suffered losses. Naturally, he was disgusted and disappointed with officials and system policies. Brother Shun thought, I made a mistake. In order to maintain stability and protect yourself, you punched and kicked me. I suddenly became a "political" abandoner. But in fact, he had "understood" a long time ago. He only used "politics." He just knew that he could not change this situation. He was contradictory and fluke. At the same time, he can't systematically analyze the political and personal components, and can only look at issues in general. In order to protect himself, he traded power and money, corrupted officials and lured officials to corruption. Shun Ge is tired of the "politics" he understands from the bottom of his heart, but in the end he cannot get away from the relationship with politics. His business activities and career development are closely related to politics in one way or another. The relationship between politics and economy has never been simple, and it is especially special in our country. My novel should make efforts in discovering, exploring, and expressing the relationship between people and society, at least it is a call for comprehensive deepening reform including institutional mechanisms and government. The practical significance of Zhou Dashun's thoughts is also here.

Chen Zhifu: In a nutshell, what do you think of the relationship between literature and politics?

Liu Shiwei: Literature is human science. Of course, literature is inseparable from politics. Politics is a part of social life, and it is the main decisive part, so no one can get rid of it. To missionary writers, this should not be a problem. Politics is a huge objective existence that writers must face, must ponder and reflect (even if indirectly). A writer has a sense of social responsibility, pays attention to life, and pays attention to a political life. Your work is not the same as a political stand-up, nor does it mean serving as a so-called "political tool". It may affect the improvement and optimization of politics. If you take the evasion method, it will be unproductive and you cannot escape. I don't understand why some people refuse to face and study politics, or simply respond to and deal with politics based on skin feelings or generalized ideas and information. This often only has excitement and anger without deep. Of course, it is necessary and meaningful to write something about alienating (downplaying) politics and life, and even things that are fussy, but that is not my choice for this work.

Chinese contemporary literature had for a time ordered literature to serve politics, and it was not in keeping with the law of literature to engage in ideas first and the Acura movement. Looking at the history of literature, I haven't found an Acura style work that can be passed on for a long time. Good literature is not something that simply greases up politics. Literary conscience is often reflected in criticism of life. This is what any conscientious writer wants to do. The writer reveals the bad things in life and the false and ugly things, which is at least critical; of course, criticality is also reflected in more aspects and deeper levels. This is the reason why writers exist. A serious and intellectually literate writer probably does not confront politics a priori, but only explores and discovers in life, and tells what he sees. This is exactly how much he loves human society and social life. It should be in line with good politics. Of course it can sometimes be uncomfortable or painful.

Hubei literature has a fine tradition of realistic realism. Since the new period, Fang Fang, Chi Li, Liu Xinglong, Chen Yingsong, etc. have created a large number of short and medium novels that respond to reality. Overall, they are first-class in Chinese contemporary literature. These works are of positive significance to the progress of social civilization. This is a glorious page of Hubei literature. Don't these works reflect politics? There must be. It's just not straightforward, it's artistic.

Chen Zhifu: "The Secret of the South" is deeply influenced by the fine tradition of realism, with a strong sense of realistic criticism, especially the political discussion in the latter part is thought-provoking. What is the significance of ideological criticism in literary creation?

Liu Shiwei: It should be noted that literary writers like me, who first came into contact with literature and studied literature at university, were first influenced by realist literature. About due to their hard work, realist things have been geneticized in my literary construction. Already. However, I am particularly restless. I like different things. I have always maintained a good taste of modernism (such as existentialism). This is the factor that changes the genetic structure of my literature. In the face of realistic writing, I pay special attention to two aspects: one is the aesthetic character of the novel, and the other is the ideological power of art.

If literature is to be taken out of the drawer or computer, it must provide as much positive value to society as possible (including useful entertainment value). This is the basic ethics of literature. The value of literature is the presentation of the writer's ability, mission, and conscience, and his attitude and expression of social life. But writers 'methods and methods are different, after all, writers' methods are literary arts and novel forms. In my work, there are some "political arguments" behind you (let's say this), which are a reflection of life itself. Our magnificent era and its social life continue to develop rapidly, and later some problems appear prominent and sharp, and comments and reflections in life are happening. The characters in mainstream life are not wood, they have experiences, they have thoughts, and natural conferences discuss some sharp contradictions and problems. This is the need and product of the development of life itself. At the beginning or the initial stage of reform and opening up, everyone was busy with business affairs. There was no time, and they were more and more eager. It was like a car on a highway, the driver desperately stepped on the accelerator, rushed forward with a plate, and passengers were still pressing Hurry up, but as soon as there is a problem with the road ahead, the car is not working, the driver has not recruited, and the speed has slowed down, the passengers begin to mumble. This mutter is also called so-called political argument. This is what happens in life itself, not the cleverness of creation. It's not the author's direct expression, but the character's behavior (thinking and speaking). For example, Liu Banwen and Zhou Dashun's sister Zhou Xiaomei in the works are both economics scholars and discuss real economic issues with their mentors in the coffee shop. Another example is the lectures and discussions in the clubhouse. It is inevitable that Zhou Dashun thought and spoke. This was the case until this time. This is also an old phenomenon in Russian literature in the 19th century. I'm writing a novel. Even if I have a train of thought, I can't throw a sentence directly. This is no way. I must follow the laws of literature.

However, this does not mean that the writer is powerless in terms of ideology. Reflecting the ideas contained in life, or transmitting the ideas of the creative subject through characters, this is a trick that more than 90% of writers will do. I am not satisfied to do so. I think the ideological nature of the novel is the ideological nature of art, and the depth of the novel is the depth of art. First, we must work hard to bring our own intellectual resources to life to think, to discover, to discover; then, to create a logical force on the structure of the novel, to reach the original in character portrayal, and to conform to modern art in terms of narrative texture and rhythm It feels that there is meaning and flavor in language, infiltrating thoughts into these aspects, and tending to unique aesthetic character and noble faith. This is the big game for novelists. Of course, if you want it, you may not be able to do it. You ask what significance ideological criticality has in literary creation, and Mr. Lu Xun's Ah Q has this significance.

  

Novels are not a repository for events

Chen Zhifu: You wrote in the preface to "The Secret of the South": "I always wanted to write a story like this so that no matter how you redefine the story, you can test its accuracy with a real tape measure. I believe it is open to approach the real thing It ’s the correct and kind-hearted premise for its gesture, and its interesting discovery and appeal may stand forever. But accuracy requires more discovery and courage, and does not hinder the beating of the mind. "How should the truth of literature be understood?

Liu Shiwei: First of all, regarding this novel, I can confidently say that in the face of the mainstream social life (economic-centered) of this era-if others' stories are heard, then I see them; if others are watching When I arrive, I feel it; if others touch it, then I am the one who is touched. I have lived through my own life, and I write reliably and confidently. I said in the preface that if we write real life and write it accurately, then it will be open. Openness is not an empty slogan, but a positive response to life and a true presentation. What life is like and what it is, write it truthfully, and strive to be accurate and close to the truth. Only then can you have conscience and goodwill, and it is an open attitude. Otherwise, where is your conscience and goodwill reflected? If a writer's writing is covering, disguising and whitewashing life, what conscience and kindness are they talking about? Talent cannot replace conscience, nor can it replace reality. Without truth, no matter how much you add vinegar to your work, it is invalid.

But the truth of literature is indeed a complex issue. I agree with essential realism. But this is laborious and life-consuming. Nor are several commentators able to identify and draw conclusions. For example, Liu Qing was a very accomplished and talented predecessor writer. In order to write the biggest life of the time “cooperative”, he lived in a “cooperative” village for a long time. Many of the corrections and deepenings in life are subverting established conclusions and personal preliminary understandings, and the repetition and deepening of them are the gains of long-term and deep life. So Liu Qing is a great writer, and his greatness makes many who tout him ill-qualified to tout him. Why do I respect Wang Meng and look at people's cultivation and life experience. Now some writers are trying to get things done, luck, imagination, concept first, carving tricks. The critics have exaggerated the small things and concepts, boasting.

Chen Zhifu: What is the special meaning of "The Secret of the South"? What exactly is a secret?

Liu Shiwei: The South is specifically referred to in Chinese traditional culture and reality, and has a corresponding relationship with the Central Government. The north is below the sky, and the south is the world. I use the Jianghan Plain as a slice of the world. What's the secret? At the beginning, there was a saying, "Secrets known by some people are suspended in the sky, and unreasonable smiles are popular." In our realistic political discourse cultural consciousness, because the left ideology has been in a dominant position for a long time, even the basic things of society and people have been ignored, hidden, or jealous, or not directly responding to the vital life principles Yu Sheng's demands, longings, longings, longings, and rhythms of life should become secrets that cannot be said or spoken. We suspended these, preached the big politics, emphasized spiritual victory, talked about class struggle every day, and made people live outside of life. This is how we have become a political and cultural tradition. At the beginning of the reform and opening up, the basic demands of life and life were still the biggest open secret in public opinion. I wrote a lot of small secrets in the novel, and these small secrets together constitute this biggest public secret. I write this novel for the sake of people, for life, and for a living life. Everyone's life is peaceful, prosperous and happy, and we can usher in a better tomorrow. This is the most reliable and reasonable. But it wasn't, at least not to say. In my opinion, the great thing about reform is here. It has changed an era, let us gradually live boldly and confidently. This is the basic logic of civilized life. I consciously have the mission and responsibility to look at things like this, and add a voice to the sound of identifying and establishing a logical starting point for future civilization. Therefore, a novel should not be just a pile of stories, otherwise it will not become a warehouse of events? Novels are not the storehouse of events. The novel should form an independent and self-consistent art world. It has bones, flesh, five internal organs, blood, soul, and life. It has lively and powerful artistic vitality and appeal.

Chen Zhifu: The unique art world you operate in "The Secrets of the South" is obviously inseparable from the construction of the humorous style of the Jianghan Plain you are familiar with.

Liu Shiwei: Yes, this novel is full of little humor in the Jianghan Plain. The humor of the Jianghan Plain is grown in local daily livelihoods. It is not the same as humor elsewhere. It is also different from the humor of academic intellectuals. . The humor of the Jianghan Plain exists in dialects, natural things, and specific activities in production and life. It is a requirement of artistic texture and a taste of wisdom. However, I think such humor is relatively easy to do, and difficult and more valuable humor is structural humor. I did an article called "Humor is Closer to Philosophy", which talked more about opinions and opinions. For example, the existence of this basic problem. Existentialism considers the nature to be ridiculous. Only use humor. And humor is not enough just at the level of language and paragraph. It must be structured and humorous, so that the essence of existence is humorous. This kind of humor is a big humor behind countless small humors throughout the whole article. Constantly humorous while reading, and finally wow, it turned out to be like this! My approach is often both ridiculously serious and extremely ridiculous.

All secrets form a huge secret. This huge secret is nothing more than the demands and desires of life. It should not be a secret at first; but everything runs in this secret. When this secret is actually not a secret, The evil nature of human desire opens up its teeth or laughs decently and generously-don't you think there is absurdity and humor?

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